December 22, 2008
Hardball
Barnicle, Rev Rivers and Mike Rogers are discussing barry's choice of Rick Warren and the impact on the LGBT community. Where is Keith Boykin hiding? How Warren is a divisive figure politically with his opposition to Prop 8 and the misinformation he promulgated. Rev Rivers thinks it's just a "pseudo-controversy". Listen to the righteous indignation in his voice and how he talks over Mike Rogers. His loud defensiveness and dismissive body language gives him away. He does not like gay folks. Why is there an extra stigma in the black "community" - especially for men? Mr Rogers sits there calmly explaining his position. Really quite remarkable. Kudos. I would have enjoyed watching him handle barama matthews.
courtesy of firedoglake
BARNICLE: What bothers you about Barack Obama inviting Rick Warren?
ROGERS:...In picking Rick Warren, [barry] picked somebody who has basically used gays in the cultural war by attacking gay relationships in the Prop 8 battle. And I think he was a bad choice, not again because of his religious beliefs, but because of his political activity. I think that the community has a right and in fact mandate and a need to stand up and object to theat behavior.
He mentions how Saddleback's website has toned down the previous openly homophobic language -- like Wright's did and barry did after Wright, Pfleger, New Black Panther Party...
BARNICLE: We're already making progress here. Rev Rivers, isn't tolerance a larger issue here than Mr Warren's appearance at the Inauguration?
RIVERS: Oh, absolutely! I think this is basically a pseudo-controversy that's been fabricated by the sorta anti-religious left. [Then he goes a'ranting - loud and angry.]...Anyone that has actually does their homework and researches what Rick in fact does...
BARNICLE: Gene, are you saying that Mr Rogers hasn't done his homework?
RIVERS: Obviously! Listen! Point of fact--
Slaps his hand in his palm (3:30) and talks louder and louder and continues talking over Rogers. Barnicle can't host a show. Eventually he lets Rogers speak but Rivers speaks over him again.
ROGERS: ...where you are forced to come on and defend Rick Warren- the very fact that this argument is happening shows the power if the gay community...
RIVERS (4:11) laughs dismissively, shrugs and turns his head to the right. Power, yeah right...who cares. This sure reveals a lot about him. He goes beyond defending warren and barry - he shows his obvious disdain for the gay community. And he does so freely without any attempt to hide it. I've watched him a lot of times starting when he came out against wright and was pist at barry - but this is the most agitated I've seen him.
Now this is absolutely ridiculous. Barnicle has spent the last two years referring to the African American *community*. They don't listen to their guests and it's clear not even to themselves. Don't they ever get embarrassed by their lunacy?
BARNICLE: Hey, Mr Rogers, let me ask you a question. You just referred in your response to - you used the phrase *my community*. What do you mean by my community? Aren't we all part of the one community in this country? Or ought we not to be part of one community?
RIVERS: Amen!
Amen is right. How many times have we hear Rev Rivers say that white America doesn't understand the black community? That wright isn't so bad because whites just don't understand black churches. And what barry's election is doing for the black community - African American if you like. Why don't these folks listen to themselves?
Rogers then makes his point that the gay community hasn't changed - but Warren has because he was confronted.
RIVERS: Mr Rogers. Listen! Mr Rogers, if YOU are happy and feel better, president-elect Obama, Rick Warrren and myself are happy. It's a great advent experience. If you're feeling better that's a good thing. Issue resolved!
What can you say to this? He interjects himself and puts himself on par with barry and Warren.
ROGERS: I think it is an improvement. What I would like to see, and I'd like to hear you agree with it, is that Rick Warren convenes and sits down, again, behind closed doors, none of the showmanship up on the stage, and trotting everybody out. But sits down with the leadership of our community--the gay leadership--and says I'd like to build a bridge. Sit down with the Human Rights Campaign, sit down with National Gay and Lesbian Task Force Religious Roundtable and show me that your speech is really about reaching out and that it's really about uniting America. And if you can't sit down, and have those meetings with the community, then I think that really shows what you're really about.
Barnicle tries to speak and Rivers cuts him off.
RIVERS: (INDIGNANT!) No. No. No. No. Mr Rogers. Mr Rogers, listen ...
ROGERS: (Calm) Sure.
RIVERS: Uhm, it would be presumptuous of you to suggest that if Reverend Warren doesn't sit down with your particular CREW [He sits forward and shakes his body in a dismissive manner], that somehow that's an act of bad faith. That's a political trick.
Imagine the black community being referred to as a "particular crew". Never happen. Nothing is taken seriously but race.
ROGERS: If Rev Rick Warren is a so-called leader in the evangelical movement who represents the evangelical movement on a national level--
RIVERS: White evangelical.
ROGERS:...certainly it's appropriate for him to sit down with the national leaders of the gay and lesbian movement -- let's not parse the exact phrases-
BARNICLE: We've got to wrap it up there.
RIVERS: We're all happy now! [laughs]
BARNICLE: We're all happy now.
Yeah because they did their bit. What are the chances warren is going to have such a meeting? And what's the likelihood of the proobamedia making sure it happens and Rev Rivers is there?
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