Larry King: Pastor Rick Warren

April 8, 2009

Saddleback Chuch’s pastor Rick Warren was also on Larry King discussing same-sex marriage. He discusses barry’s pick of him, the surrounding controversy, faith in America and his ministry. He doesn’t have the glazed look of the Osteens and seems like an earnest guy who has devoted himself to doing good. Rev Rivers was quite a piece of work when he debated the issue with Mike Rogers. Really worth a watch. Rivers clearly does not care for gay folks which he refers to as a "particular crew".

CNN Transcript

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KING: How did you handle all the controversy that resulted about the president selecting you?

PASTOR RICK WARREN: Yes, you know, Larry, there was a story within a story that never got told. In the first place, I am not an anti-gay or anti-gay marriage activist. I never have been, never will be. During the whole Proposition 8 thing, I never once went to a meeting, never once issued a statement, never — never once even gave an endorsement in the two years Prop 8 was going.

The week before the — the vote, somebody in my church said, Pastor Rick, what — what do you think about this? And I sent a note to my own members that said, I actually believe that marriage is — really should be defined, that that definition should be — say between a man and a woman.

And then all of a sudden out of it, they made me, you know, something that I really wasn’t. And I actually — there were a number of things that were put out. I wrote to all my gay friends — the leaders that I knew — and actually apologized to them. That never got out.

So was he apologizing for public consumption or because he was sincere?

WARREN: There were some things said that — you know, everybody should have 10 percent grace when they say public statements. And I was asked a question that made it sound like I equated gay marriage with pedophilia or incest, which I absolutely do not believe. And I actually announced that. All of the criticism came from people that didn’t know me.

KING: Well…

WARREN: Not a single criticism came from any gay leader who knows me and knows that for years, we’ve been working together on AIDS issues and all these other things.

If that were the case, why the scrubbing of his website? Why the changing - softening - of words? Enlightenment or guilt? Now watch how he skirts the next question. For years he’s been working with gay leaders and yes he’s “oblivious” to the legalization of same -sex marriage in Iowa. He knew he was coming on this show and he knew the context in which he was asked to appear - but he’s oblivious. What is the “yes” in reference to?

KING: All right. Do you, therefore, criticize or not comment on the Iowa court decision to permit gay marriage?

WARREN: Yes. I’m — I’m totally oblivious to — to what — that’s not even my agenda. My agenda is two things.

One, today is the 15th anniversary of the genocide in Rwanda. It’s a national day of mourning, which I — as you know, I’ve been heavily involved in — in Rwanda and helping rebuild that nation and I’m very concerned about that.

And the second thing is, I’m interested in what the recession is doing to the spiritual climate of our nation. And as we start Easter week and Passover week, which is a really big week for those of us who are Jews or Christians, Passover and Easter, it’s our biggest week of the year. And it actually was the — the week that I started Saddleback Church 30 years ago this Easter Sunday.

KING: All right. I — we’ll get to that and we’ll get to, certainly, the recession and faith in a minute. But have — by the way, have you talked to Obama since the inaugural?

WARREN: No, I haven’t. I’ve talked to the White House staff several times. I haven’t talked to him. All — all I’m doing is trying to keep my head down on the things that I’ve got to do. And I’m — I know I’m — he’s trying to keep his head down on all the things he’s got to do. And we certainly need to pray for the president. I wouldn’t want to be president during what’s happening right now.

KING: What’s your thoughts about how he’s doing?

WARREN: I think he’s doing as best as he can. I think he is a — he’s a good leader. Every leader makes mistakes.

What mistakes is he referring to?

WARREN: So what? But he’s doing the best he can. And I think that — that the deck of cards he was given, no president has been given this in a long, long time, in terms of the crises that he’s having to deal with. It is so complex. And it’s not going to be solved overnight. And America has a very short attention span.

KING: Were you surprised he asked you to deliver the invocation?

WARREN: I was. I could have given you a list of 30 other guys I would have thought he would have asked.

KING: How did it happen? Did he call you? Did somebody call — how did — how did it — how did the process take place?

WARREN: I had just finished a week in New York City, when we were launching our “Purpose-Driven Connection” magazine. And I was actually sitting on the plane on a runway. And my associate said, there’s a cell phone call and it’s — it’s the president-elect. And sitting on the runway, he said, “Rick, I want you to do the inaugural — the inaugural prayer.” And I, of course, said, well, anything I could do. I was surprised.

There were two back to back days there that were pretty amazing for me. The day before, I was invited to speak at the 40th anniversary of Martin Luther King’s death at Ebenezer Baptist Church. And to me, he’s been a hero all of my life. I have a picture and a signed letter of Martin Luther King hanging in my — in my office with a picture of Gandhi next to it. And to be invited to speak at — at Martin Luther King’s memorial day service on the 40th anniversary and the 80th birthday of his — of his life was a big deal. And then to do the inauguration the next day was amazing.

KING: It’s been quite a year, quite a time, quite an era for Rick Warren. We’ll be back with him in a moment. The decline and fall of Christian America — does a new poll indicate that that is happening?

[commercial]

KING: We’re back with Rick Warren. He’s in Irvine and we’re in New York. One other thing in the gay issue, while you said you were not an activist at all…

WARREN: Yes.

KING: Did you not encourage your flock to vote yes on Proposition 8?

WARREN: Oh, yes. You know, I don’t think that the definition of marriage should be changed.

KING: So you did ask your people who worship with you to vote that way?

WARREN: Yes. I just never campaigned…

KING: …because that’s an active issue.

WARREN: I never campaigned for it. I never — I’m not an anti-gay activist — never have been. Never participated in a single event. I just simply made a note in a newsletter. And, of course, everything I write it’s — it’s (INAUDIBLE).

KING: It’s not high on your road of issues?

WARREN: No, no, it’s very low. In fact, I am working with a number of gay organizations on issues that we care about, in saving lives.

KING: OK. Do you think Christianity is slipping in America? That’s the front cover of “Newsweek,” out today. Quite a loss occurring in the Christian community. There you see the headline.

WARREN: Well, I would say it’s the best of times and the worst of times. First place, I don’t think that all of the questions that are asked in surveys are always as objective as they could be. For instance, if you ask people, are you a Protestant — and the number of Protestants has gone down dramatically in the last 30 years. I don’t even call myself a Protestant.

So terminologies are changing. I don’t think faith is changing that much. I think that during a recession three things happen, Larry. Three things go up when money goes down. Church attendance goes up, bar attendance goes up, and movie attendance goes up, because people are looking for three things when they’re disappointed in materialism. They’re looking for meaning, and that’s why they start going to church. They’re looking for connections in relationships, and that’s why they go to bars. They’re looking for relief, and that’s why they go to movies.

They discuss religion in America. Warren said he has had a record influx - baptizing 800 folks in one day. That “there are people who are hurting, people are also searching.”

KING: The Obamas are searching, too, for a church, apparently in Washington. They don’t have one. Do you think it’s important for the public to see their leader go to church?

WARREN: I think it’s important for the public to see our leaders having faith. I think it expresses a sense of humility that says, I recognize that I’m not the end all, be all. It’s a good sense of humility and a declaration of dependence upon god. And there are — I could recommend a dozen really good churches in Washington D.C. area. I have a lot of pastor friends of all different styles. You tell me the style you want and I’ll tell you a good church in Washington, D.C.

[commercial break]

KING: We’re with Rick Warren. An e-mail question from Mim in Myrtle Beach, South Carolina. “Are you a consultant to President Obama as Billy Graham was to previous presidents? Is that a role you would want?”

WARREN: No. In fact, I told the president that. I’m a friend and I’m a prayer partner, but I’m not a consultant. I’m not a pundit. And it’s not my role to do that. My role is to help people in their personal lives. I have helped a lot of leaders, both locally and globally, with issues about family and issues about personal stress. That’s a pastoral role. I’m a pastor, as you know, Larry. I’m not a politician and I’m not a pundit. I care about each person individually, whether I happen to agree with them or not. We all have the same basic needs. We all want to be loved. We all want to have a place of service. We all want our lives to count. We all want to know our purpose in life. These are things that everybody deals with.

KING: Do you still give 90 percent away from what you take in?

WARREN: Yes, sure do.

KING: We have a phone call for Rick Warren from Orlando, Florida. Hello.

CALLER: Hello, Pastor Warren, I have heard evangelicals believe that President Obama is the anti-Christ. Are you aware of this and if so, how do you feel about it?

WARREN: Well, of course, I don’t agree with that. Thank you for the question. I don’t agree with that. You can’t label — saying Evangelicals believe is like saying Americans believe. I can show you all levels of spectrum in terms of political views and indoctrinal views. They just have in common the connection to Jesus Christ. So I don’t believe that and I don’t even think most Evangelicals believe that. In fact, I’m certain they don’t.

KING: Obama has traveled to Turkey, first president to visit a Muslim country. He had this to say about the United States and Islam in a speech to Turkish parliament. Watch. I’d like you to comment.

KING: What do you think of that?

WARREN: You know, I think that’s the exact right tone, Larry. There are 600,000 Buddhists in the world. There are 800,000 Hindus in the world. There are a billion Muslims in the world. There are 2.3 billion Christians in the world. You have to get along together. That’s why I speak with Jewish groups. I speak to Muslim groups.

We’re all human beings. We have to work on issues we don’t always agree on. I’m not really into what I call inter-faith dialogue. I think that’s a lot of wasted time. I’m interested in what I call inter-faith projects. In other words, I’m not going to convince a lot of people who have other beliefs to change their beliefs and vice versa. But we can work together on issues like poverty, disease, illiteracy and things that — problems common to all humanity.

This week, for instance, tomorrow night, I’m going to a Seder dinner with my dear friend Elie Spitz (ph), who is a local rabbi. We’ll celebrate Passover together. And then later in the work, I’ll do Easter, which is — they’re both all about redemption. My next door neighbor is Muslim. I traveled with him to the Middle East. We’re dear, dear friends. And there’s no reason — what people don’t seem to understand is that you don’t have to agree with everybody in order to love them.

WARREN: Well, it’s not my opinion. As a pastor, I just have to do what the Bible tells me to do. And the way I interpret it, I believe that marriage is between a man and a woman. And that’s good for society. That doesn’t mean that people don’t love each other. It just means that marriage is for a man and a woman.

[...]

KING: A lot of comments on the below about tonight’s show. Our correspondent David Theall is here with some of what you’re saying about Pastor Warren.

DAVID THEALL, CNN BLOG CORRESPONDENT: Larry, we’re hearing from people who are fans of the pastor’s work and we’re also hearing from people who are angry still at some of the positions that he has taken over the last couple years. Says this person, “Rick Warren saved my life, my marriage and my family with the ‘purpose Driven Life.’” He thanks the pastor. We heard from somebody who said this, “my son is gay, a veteran, and I resent people like Rick Warren using the Bible to tell my son who he can marry.”

KING: Thank you so much, David. Rick, I guess that last comment doesn’t shock you, does it?

There’s more to the interview, if you’re interested.

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